You know, it’s strange to me that when I say that all heterosex is rape, women assume I’m talking about *women’s* desires. They think that what I’m saying is that no woman is capable of deciding she’d like to have sex with a man. This is a mistaken interpretation.
What I am saying is, simply, that all men are rapists.
I spoke before about how my grandmother lived with my thief of a cousin a while back. Because he was a thief, through and through, whenever he had his eye on something, my grandmother would either hide it at her daughter’s house or she’d “give” it to him. So that he wouldn’t steal it.
Now, it was always my opinion that regardless of the fact that my grandmother considered herself to have “given” him these items (when she wasn’t ferreting them away at my aunt’s house) my cousin stole those items. You can’t really “give” anything to a thief who intended to take it anyway.
So, in saying that my cousin stole from my grandmother, I’m not saying anything *at all* about her own propensity to give him stuff. I am not saying that my grandmother wasn’t a giving person, or that she never *desired* to give him anything. She probably did. It’s just that none of that outweighs the fact that he would have taken it anyway.
I feel similarly about heterosex. Even if a woman wants it – and I’m sure plenty of women do – it doesn’t outweigh the fact that men would rape her anyway. The men are *rapists*. It’s what they do. “Wanting it” doesn’t change that, though I’m not denying that some women do in fact “want it.”
AROOO (via missworld) (via thepatriarchy)
Oh, bullshit. Saying that all men are rapists or that all men would rape is not only insulting and patently untrue, it also excuses the rapist responsibility for their actions. (Ie, “He couldn’t help it! He’s just a man!”)
I expect better from feminists.
Yes, I expect better, too. What a load of bullshit. When you say that all heterosexual sex is rape, we’re not just mad about you discounting a woman’s desires, we’re also mad about the insinuation that men can’t help it, and that all men are evil, and therefore we can’t expect any better from them. We’re mad because some of us love men, and some of us have been raped by different men, and the idea of those two men being compared is a gigantic slap across the face to us. We’re mad because you’re discounting and minimizing actual fucking rape by saying that it is the same thing as our consensual sexual experiences. I’m mad because you’re discounting the times I was raped by saying that it’s the same thing as when I willingly and eagerly fuck my husband.
Not that this quote doesn’t seem to still be saying that women aren’t capable of real desire. Actually, it’s saying precisely that — that women only desire sex with men because we fear what will happen if we don’t. The degree of difference between the two statements is splitting hairs.
Oh, and also — we’re seriously saying that all the time, every day, hell, many times every hour, women are raped and they “WANT IT”? Seriously? This is what passes off as “feminism” now? Saying that women who you’re arguing were raped “do in fact want it”?
Yeah, some of us are actually interested in combating and eventually ending sexual violence rather than reinforcing rape myths, bizarrely as though it’s some kind of intellectual purity. Some of us realize that rape culture is precisely about attempting to blur the line between rape and consensual sex as though it’s too hard to figure out, and therefore don’t run around talking out our asses and doing the work for it.
Uh, what Cara said, pretty much. Maybe I’ll add: just because your cousin is a thief doesn’t mean all your cousins are thieves; there are actually men who, if a woman says “no” or “stop” or “ouch” or “hold up” or whatever, will in fact STOP, IMMEDIATELY, like they have just touched a hot stove or something, because the idea of hurting the person they are having sex with or were about to have sex with is deeply abhorrent to them.